So, is there anything good aout the US?
My cousin Niels keeps writing me emails asking “Jakob, tell me just one good thing about the US”. He just saw ‘Sicko’. And read about Bollinger. And also, he has socialist-tendencies, I think, so it figures…
None the less, I think it is an interesting question. And one that many Europeans ask themselves more or less seriously (I just mentioned this post to my (American) land lady and she said “Yeah, I keep wondering what the good things are. I can tell you good things about NYC, but the US… Hmm…”)
Therefore this post. Let me know what you think. Why do you love US? Or why don’t you? Everyone’s viewpoints are welcome!
I could put out some teasers:
(universal) health care.
culture of entrepreneurship.
Tolerance.
Soccer (it’s called football, aight?)
Bush… Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, etc
Minimum wage
Nature
Concepts of ‘race’
Foreign Policy
There are many more. Don’t be shy- let’s know what you think!
Just post your thoughts under ‘comments’.
Yeeha
October 4th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Hey Jake,
Hope all is good? Here are my comments
Why I love the US:
- Democracy
- Action and not all talk and theory
- They made Pizza what it is today
- The Simpsons
- Freedom
- Mountain Dew
- Skittles
- The reason that we are not speaking German
Why I hate the US:
- Dobble standards in foreign politics
- Ultra-liberal foundation
- Mad fundamentalist christianity
- Root Beer
October 4th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
I love:
- Huge portions of food containing serious amounts of meat
- Hip Hop
- Hollywood
- Rock Music
- Skateboarding
- They stick their riffel where their mouth is (even though they sometimes should stick it up their ***)
- Friendly people
There is so much more, but I am just about writing two articles. One about how bad the US companies are acting in Africa and one about how bad Europe is treating the Gypsies. Conclusion; We are all bad except Africans and the Gypsies. (Btw. let us call them Roma, it is the correct word.)
October 4th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
In Denmark, “foreigners” are people whose great-great-grandparents moved to Denmark from somewhere else. In the US “foreigners” are those silly people who actually intend to go back where they came from - what are they thinking???
I love -
the American dream - it does exist. My parents came here with $300, a 2 -year old daughter and broken English. And look at us now!
Big buildings, neverending highways and foot-long hot dogs
Delivery and drive-Thru
HBO
and most of all…
Country music
October 4th, 2007 at 10:12 pm
I’ve noticed that the main argument for “why do I love US” is, “Freedom”. What kind freedom do you have in USA, that we don’t have Denmark? The freedom to choose your own doctor, which you btw. have to pay for your self? The freedom to live where ever you want, or the freedom to be what ever you want, if you have the money of course!?
- Bad healt sector (almost the worst in the world)
- Way too religious
- Naive people
- Big different in social classes
- Liberal system
- Richer gets richer
- Too much crime
And I could go on and on and on and on.
I still don’t think there’s anyone who has given me a “good” reason why USA is a great country.
And Elly, you can get the American dream elsewhere. You can get the danish version of the American dream, which I think is way better! You need to have a safety-net or what ever you’ll call it, to have freedom. You can’t do what ever you want, if you’re bound to your social status. And of course there are exceptions Jakob
That’s just my point of view, America sucks!
October 5th, 2007 at 9:49 am
This man, Jakob…This so-called human rights defender, philantrophist, globetrotter and womanizer still needs to learn a few basic things about entitlement theory!
Example: Recently, Jakob borrowed my beloved Bonnie Prince Billy cd, I see a darkness, just to leave it smashed to pieces in his former office in Copenhagen. Sitting here, looking at it (or what´s left of it) among his other hoorible cds like Björn Afzelius, etc, I am almost in tears…
Katrine has offered me her copy of the cd in return, but it´s just not enough, is it?
So stop this human rights nonsense, Jakob, and start explaning the difference between mine and yours… This is not Nam, this is bowling, there are rules, Dude!
October 5th, 2007 at 10:43 am
I agree with everything Morten has to say, and, additionally, think we should turn this in to a post about what we love and hate about Jakob, rather than about America:-)
Okay, I’ll play along.
I love:
- American literature; especially Faulkner, Steinbeck, Joyce Carol Oates, Paul Auster (every dane loves P.A.), the Beat-poets and, of course, my heroine Gertrude Stein.
- Cupcakes
- Those of the American indie-rockers with a significant amount of weltschmertz.
- City lights
I am slightly less pleased with:
- The survival-of-the-fittest-attitude dominating both communities and individuals
- Everybody asking me how I am all the time
- The predominant humour of American sitcoms
- Lindsay Lohan
- American accents
- All the crazy religous Southerners
- All the perky cheerfulness
- Oprah
I hate lots of things about Denmark too. I am generally grumpy and dissatisfied, so the Americans reading this post, should not take it personally.
October 5th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
so, it’s tough to say what is wrong and what is right with the us. however, i do agree with the negative view of our (i use our and their interchangeably when referring to the us) healthcare system - for much less money spent, we could have a far more efficient and (more importantly) universal healthcare system.
but, there are also several things that the united states does well that make it enjoyable to live here. and i really do think that many of them boil down to the “freedom” that one of the previous commenters didn’t seem to understand. while people could pessimistically say that it is the freedom to die poor (which it can be), i would contend that it is also the freedom to live as you please. if you want to live like an irresponsible pig in a huge house with a large pool (run year-round), air-conditioners that run horrendously inefficiently and slaughter the environment, and drive around in a fleet of 2-3 hummers that get atrocious gas mileage, you are ABSOLUTELY allowed to do so. i may not agree with you and might be angry at you (and in fact, hate you), but within the us, you have as much of a right to all that as i have the right to ride my bike to school and back. from what i’ve heard about denmark (from jakob and morten [not the one on this post]), such a life would be limited to only the extremely rich (and irresponsible) due to what seems like moral values being implemented through politics (ie, in denmark, they charge a higher percent of taxation for the purchase of a hummer than for that of a … toyota prius). it might make the us seem worse in the eyes of the rest of the world, but i do think that “liberal” morality in government is what will undo the world (as you can see it has already done for almost 8 years now, hehe). i understand that it works great in denmark, but there’s a reason for it: most of denmark is danish. the us cannot say that about itself - most of the us is not american (actually, this diversity is another positive that i could go on about for an hour, but will refrain from doing so now).
there are other positives and negatives about the us system, but i don’t think i should go into them now (maybe later if this discussion really starts rolling).
hope this wasn’t too preachy.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
Great comments folks!
Morten, I do appologize for your cd and will personally compensate you (in fact, you can go pick up another issue of the cd at Vester Søgade
Sahil, clever comments as always… Though I’m still not sure I think the freedom to trash the environment (mind you, the same one that I (and the rest of the world) am enjoying
Katrine- I was hopoing from some culture from your side- thank you!
Ellen, I take the point about foreigners- the dream we will have to discuss some other time
Andreas, I could see you finishing the huge portions here… But imagine me, man..!
Michael- tell us about the baby
Nille, The youth is blessed with extreme views and you are no exceptions. Keep at it! That’s my cousin!
Hope to see the debate rollin’ on… And dont be shy to take the discussion hom to your living rooms- maybe we could even let it open our eyes a bit… I know mine have opened at times on this topic..!
October 5th, 2007 at 6:49 pm
hehe, good point, i should have provided a counterexample to gas-guzzling hummer owners… ok, by the same set of principles that allow the hummer owner to live alongside earth-loving bikers (myself), the government is rather free in its allowances not just of how one lives, but what one does. this has led to wild innovation that would probably not have been possible otherwise. cases in point: benjamin franklin’s seemingly absurd experiment regarding kites and the discovery of electricity; robert goddard’s “ridiculous” theories relating to rocketry that ultimately led to human exploration of space; and doc brown (from back to the future) tinkering in his garage to develop a time machine.
ignoring the last example (cuz it is … not real), it is the very same idea of freedom to live and do as one pleases that allows the gas-guzzler to live his life blissfully unaware of the ridiculousness of his life and that led benjamin franklin to discover electricity and robert goddard to develop rocketry. i guess it is a split in philosophies here maybe: i believe that some “bad” things have to be allowed in order to let the “good” things to occur too.
i hope that helps clarify my point. by the way, i (sadly) agree with several of the critiques offered by Niels (Nille?) and others - i’d just rather not admit to that. hehehe.
October 5th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
Point taken, Sahil… You do indeed enjoy a high degree of freedom in this blessed country.
I would put a minor disclaimer to your point about freedom to behave in whatever way one pleases, though: Are you sure people who like to make love to other people of their own sex would agree with you?
Or women who are pregnant and don’t wish to be so?
Also, I don’t see that freedom resctricted in welfare states, so not sure I see the causal link… Examples?
October 5th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
Again, it’s all about the money
October 5th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
hmmm, while i disagree that in a more welfare state goddard would have been allowed to waste essential resources on as silly an idea as sending things into the sky (in much the same way that the hummer owner is discouraged there currently), i also take your point about restrictions placed upon abortion and homosexuality. however, i would like to add that those are restrictions placed by “liberal idealists” on what used to be as close to an amoral society as possible (i guess new zealand might beat us to that label by now).
in terms of it being about money, i’d say that it’s easier to do what you want here even if it is not acceptable to others (ie, wasting precious national resources like petrol on silly things like hummers is more okay here than in welfare states). however, i also take the point that money determines a lot more in the us than in, say, denmark. but, i would say it is better determined by money and economics than by who one knows and politics, which i would say is more the case in welfare societies.
by the way, i’d like to state again that i hate being the sole “defender of america”.
October 5th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
I’m late to the party and frankly shocked that the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleader team has not been mentioned. What gives - y’all hate cheerleaders or something??
October 6th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
I hate to see Sahil as the sole defender of America, so here goes:
It rarely ceases to amaze me how Danes feel compelled to criticize America for being cultural imperialists on one hand, and in the same breath seek to export the Danish/Scandinavian welfare system model to any country they are benchmarking with. The fact of the matter is that this model would never work outside of Scandinavia, and Americans in particular are loath to embrace it.
This is not, as some would argue, due to any lack of respect or sympathy with the less well off. On the contrary, the US has a tradition of giving and philanthropy that far surpasses any other I can think of. The main reason is a severe mistrust – often well-justified – in the federal government’s ability to administer social welfare schemes or any other large amounts of money for that matter.
But there is another, far more compelling reason that the Scandinavian model will never work in the United States. The societal conditions for such a model are simply not existent there. The Scandinavian welfare model is based on a small and extremely homogenous population, which in turn creates the conditions for what Karl Marx and people from Roskilde University would call ‘solidarity’ and thereby the welfare policies so revered by Danes. But once you have a population of over 300 million people of immense diversity, the ability to implement generous universal health care, free education, unemployment benefits, pensions and federal paternalism in general completely collapses. It would be unthinkable, for instance, to export the Scandinavian model to an EU-wide system for the very same reason.
I think it is worth keeping in mind the sheer size of the United States when making these types of comparisons. You will obviously find egregious examples of whatever you are looking for in a population as large and diverse as the American one. There are so many facets to America that I have to construe the blanket “America sucks” statement above as a severe case of narrow-minded unwillingness to comprehend complexity.
Narrow-mindedness sucks.
October 6th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
jesper, thanks for helping out. i agree with the homogeneity and population size reasoning offered by jasper. i wanted to avoid it because jakob does not like to think it is true. hehe.
October 6th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
First- I think US has a great culture of entrepreneurship and that people act much more on what they care about here than many other places. I also think that it’s muuuuch more easy to integrate into this very diverse society and be looked upon as ‘american’ than in most other places. (I also think that many parts are still very, very segregated, but let’s leave that for later)
However:
Jesper and (not) Sahil… While I do think you both make very valid points about why welfare in a deeper sense wouldnt work here (and Jesper about why it does in Denmark) I still have to object.
For example, if it’s true that Americans’ unwillingnes to support a universal health care system is due to a lack of trust in fed. govt., then why is that? Why is it that all throughout the history of this country nobody has ever succeeded in making the point that maybe it could be cool if everyone could go to the doctor when they were sick?
Or to touch on a subject of eternal interest for me: the American dream: why is it that Americans insist to belive in that dream (and conclude that a welfare state would shatter it) when social mobility is higher in Scandinavia?
I think your point Jesper, about distrust in govt, is to the point but is that it? Does that mean that if a trustworthy Prez is elected next year, we’ll see US citizens agreeing to pay the amount of tax it takes to build up a ’sound’ welfare system? I personally doubt it and see underlying structues, discourses, in US as very far from that of ’solidarity’ as Jesper labells it (although I am well aware that Americans are much more willing to pay up privately. But then again, that also means you can have a building or street named after you
So, in conclusion, it’s not that I necessarily want to export welfare to US (although I’d be happy if they wanted to import it) it’s more that I’m buggled as to why Americans, for many, many, many years, (not just under W) think that a society where some 37 mil. people live below the poverty line in their own country while there’s an abundance of resources in all parts of that country, is ideal. Why is it ok that public schools are funded by property tax and that poor kids therefore go to poor schools? It’s this acceptance of social inequality in its highest form that interest me and drives me to write looong posts here.
Eager to hear more from everyone!
October 6th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
Oh, and btw, Jesper: when did you change to the Cowboys? What happened to Redskins? Are they not hanging around Donald anymore? Oh… Those were the days
October 6th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
Great stuff from all of you, here is my twisted view.
It is true the US cannot be directly compared to Europe, Europe has experienced an extremely long period of white civilisation which the US hasn’t. So the recent US is still a young person in these terms, unfortuately this young person has a machine gun with the safety catch off, so can be very frightening.
The UK is as multicultural as the US if not more so - France and Germany marginally less so, but remember the make up of the winning French world cup football team. We all have a welfare state, could be better but its there and more importantly the people think that in a civilised state it should be there. So looking after fellow human beings in a multicultural society is perfectly possible. The last I heard the US remained the richest country in the world, so money is clearly not the issue here.
The US has of course experienced thousands of years civilisation, but through human beings with a darker complexion. But I’m not going to go there right now - I’m planning to go out dancing tonight, in a club that plays dance music from the US, Europe, Africa, Pakistan, India and all all stops in between, so haven’t got time!
Love you all.
Amer xxxxx
October 6th, 2007 at 7:45 pm
I agree with Katrine on many things - great post! - though I would have to put Lindsay Lohan in the other category - she is one of our shining beacons of light, obviously - and put Oprah at the top of EVERYONE’s list of what’s wrong with this country.
In fact, why don’t we just throw Oprah in jail for crimes against daytime television, and use her money to pay for everyone’s health care?
Problem solved!
October 6th, 2007 at 8:17 pm
I would loooooooooooove to throw Oprah in jail and use her money to pay for universal health care, but maybe a slight tax increase (or decrease in military spending) could do the job?
Here is John Stewart’s take on Bush’s health care veto:
http://www.comedycentral.com/motherload/index.jhtml?ml_video=109136
October 7th, 2007 at 4:13 am
That’s just genious, Morten… I think the last ten seconds of that clip completely summarizes my whole point in this discussion! Is that the freedom you talk about Sahil? (and Jesper and Ellen and who else join that choir?)
October 7th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Hi Jakob, long time no see.
I once met an Italian guy in Israel, who told me that in Denmark all the girls spend their weekends lying naked in the parks, waiting for random guys to come and fuck them. That made quite an impression!! Since then I’ve been a little hesitant about commenting on the minds and doings of citizens of countries I have never visited. But at least I’m now on your blog. Enjoy your “new life” it’s going to be great!
October 9th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
Steaks… Steaks in the US are pretty good. Combined with gun culture, how can guys ever be bored?
I am in Norway and there is only very small and expensive steaks, so I like the US this minute…
Ben & Jerry’s is another reason.
Maybe if the US got morphed into a supermarket things would go great - except all the clerks would pack nukes and would give you a hard moral bashing if you bought the wrong stuff. And then they would invade your kitchen if they felt something was not right. Maybe the supermarket idea is not all good.
Actually, I like the US - US Governments not so much.
ps. Sorry for messing up your almost serious debate…
October 13th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
Hvad så? lever du stadig? Skal vi skype her i løbet i weekenden?
October 17th, 2007 at 11:48 am
after your not-so-subtle nudges, i decided to check out your fansite jakob and have to admit that i rather enjoyed strolling through this debate. so much so that i have been provoked to add to the chatter….
but note, i am very reluctantly and hesitantly dipping my toes into the blogosphere here. despite the obvious attractions of a daily polemic, being a reserved brit, i prefer to rant my views on a one-to-one basis. in britain espousing one’s views in public is considered to be frightfully self-indulgent and overt signs of outspokenness are usually taken as a sign of madness. we have an small area at hyde park corner with platforms reserved for members of the public to shout out on whatever they may wish - and, tellingly, they do tend to be either british lunatics or quite clever foreigners.
actually, next time you are in london jakob….
anyroad, i just wanted to add to a point made elsewhere about the american dream / the land of opportunity. what this really refers to is social mobility. and, while it may have existed in the past, it patently doesn’t anymore. as a measure of economic and social opportunity in advanced countries, the US has one of the worse records in the world. income inequality is even worse than in class-ridden UK.
whether you look at wages, salaries and income, or at wealth, the US scores badly on all equality measures - both across racial and class divides. and, increasingly, money drives allocation of education and access to healthcare and basic services. you are 3 times more likely to graduate university if you are white (actually, i made that statistic up - but i’m sure it is not way off the mark) and non-white americans are much more likely to earn less and rely on welfare.
the irony is that america is becoming exactly what it had been so proud of not being. while americans can rightly be proud of the immigrant past, there is now a worrying culture of denial with many insisting that opportunities in life are far greater than they in fact are. i remember reading somewhere that the US now has both the highest poverty rate and lowest rate of escape from poverty of all developed countries.
this isn’t stuff we don’t already know, but we should all be concerned as it touches on a much greater point about social justice in the developed world. if such polarisation can occur in america (and the country name is not just academic here - while i’d be criticising germany or japan just as freely if the case were the same there, th relevance isn’t quite the same), it will naturally occur elsewhere - such is the influence of the american model in developing countries.
i don’t think it is anti-american or pro-european to point these things out. in fact, pro-american and anti-european economist does a pretty good job of it here: http://www.economist.com/world/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3518560
before i sign-off, i just want to add something further on anti-americanism. over here in europe, this has become one of the last respectable prejudices and very fashionable among the chattering classes. while this is fun to indulge in and i am happy to point out what i believe to be reasonable political criticism of the United States and the bush administration, i don’t believe it fair or useful to extend this prejudice on a cultural basis. the elitist european and michael moore-type diatribes against america only serve to encourage greater US unilateralism and further widen the divide between europeans and the americans.
i quite like the yanks, though would rather yank off my right arm than spend a week in the company of an evangelical bush supporter. similarly, I quite like the brits, but would rather yank off my left arm than spend time with a eurosceptic tory. so I tend to avoid both types, otherwise i’d be armless and unable to type these rambles…
while i don’t agree with such good-bad lists (and how can anyone put mountain dew in the former???!), i can’t resist adding to it. so i’ll sign-off with my prudent contribution:
good- the sopranos
bad - second amendment
now jakob, don’t get me started on the danes…..
cheerio, d
October 19th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
Brilliant reply, Dan! Couldnt agree more! Wish I had time to expand but have a medterm in Econ to attend… Talk to you soon Dr D.
Jakob